PDA

View Full Version : Selling Albums vs. Singles



Paula
11-18-2015, 09:26 PM
An excellent blog post by the co-writer of She's Tired of Boys that talks about Garth's stand on selling albums only - http://amandacolleenwilliams.com/shes-tired-boys-garth-brooks-song/

Paula

Skywise
11-18-2015, 11:17 PM
ya know, after reading that- I'm sure my take on it will be somewhat different than some of the people on here- it's morel likely that I'll ruffle some feathers... But.... being me, and not being afraid to be the one to say I'm being 'objective' about Garth.........


I think for all intents and purposes, this could ave been written by Garth himself. This reads like a promo piece, an apologetic for Garth's misguided stance on digital music.. It's nothing more than parroting what he says in his politically correct atmosphere of saying things to make himself look good..

In short.. while it's well written... i don't buy it...



One angle that I've not thought of before really... but tying into the iTunes thing again (which is what this article is doing, in one way or another..)

If Garth is so concerned about the songwriter... unless theres some piece that I haven't heard about, or read about... Why not set his album to 'album only' on iTunes for songs that are written by others (in short, buy the whole album to get those songs) and set only the songs HE writes himself, by himself, to be available as a single... why not add special material to some albums but make it album only, driving up some sales of full albums....

I'm sorry, but we have all seen (or can see if you look at iTunes) that there are albums that have the music as 'album only'... Garth could set the songs that HE wrote alone to be available as tracks, and help the songwriters by having album only for their tracks...

It's not about 'the songwriter' and it's not about 'protecting them' and 'the customer getting the whole story of the cd' etc... (whatever soundbite/feelgood sentiment that Garth and/or Ms. Williams want to put out there)...

It's about Money.... Garth wants more
It's about control... Garth wants total control...
It's about stubbornness and a childish attitude... which he is showing in some respects to digital music
It's about not truly embracing or looking at/to/towards a future in music.. which Garth isn't doing..

Garth's going to flounder... until he realizes his mistake.. He can't be the same old Garth as he's always been.. he's a nostalgia act right now... (right in the same vein almost as some of his 'influences'..) IF he wants a future in the music industry.. Garth has to realize he can't stay the same as he was in the 90's.. it won't work....

Now, let the flames, and/or the Garthpologetics commence...

Charles
11-18-2015, 11:26 PM
I'll just add one thing to this discussion.


If in fact selling singles over albums hurts songwriters (which I will say it will for arguments sake), do we want to see a day where artists do not make albums?

Do we want to lose those album cuts?

I do not want to see a day where artists stop making albums because singles are all that sell.

Maybe iTunes does have too much control...maybe they do!

That's all.

Skywise
11-18-2015, 11:35 PM
don't get me wrong- I think that Apple (iTunes) does want in some ways too much control. they are like garth in that respect- they want things their way..

Still, placing blame on Apple for this (which you're not I know) won't help things- Apple is (although the giant, biggest, most important, de facto #1 site, you name it) the top for digital music really, it's still only one 'cog' in a digital machine..

I don't want to lose the album cuts- which wouldn't happen with making the sales 'album only' , perhaps even with the model I mentioned in my first post

Charles
11-18-2015, 11:42 PM
Yeah it was really frustrating to see really bad "tribute" versions of People Loving People, Mom, and All American Kid chart HIGH on the iTunes chart ...

Emerald Isle
11-19-2015, 12:14 AM
I still think his album only stance has more to do with trying to pass the Beatles than protecting the integrity of the album or the songwriters. I think he's afraid that if he sells singles, he'll never achieve that goal.

Part of my reasoning for this is that he's released 2 greatest hits albums which by definition were collections of singles. In other words, he had no problem with me listening to FILP without hearing Wolves in those comps because, hey, more album sales. I thinks that's also why he demands that at least a million copies of each album ship on their first runs, so that each release is guaranteed platinum status.

Sorry to be cynical, but hey, it's what I think.

Brett Dale
11-19-2015, 06:30 AM
I still think his album only stance has more to do with trying to pass the Beatles than protecting the integrity of the album or the songwriters. I think he's afraid that if he sells singles, he'll never achieve that goal.

Part of my reasoning for this is that he's released 2 greatest hits albums which by definition were collections of singles. In other words, he had no problem with me listening to FILP without hearing Wolves in those comps because, hey, more album sales. I thinks that's also why he demands that at least a million copies of each album ship on their first runs, so that each release is guaranteed platinum status.

Sorry to be cynical, but hey, it's what I think.

I understand where your coming from, if I was to argue though, I would say, when he released man against machine and was truly concerned with passing the Beatles, he wouldve done a MASSIVE media blitz, he wouldnt had cancelled because of the Ferguson riots.

He would make sure Ghost Tunes actually release their numbers. he would release single after single to radio.

But he hasnt done this. So who knows?

garthcop
11-19-2015, 10:37 AM
Well, if it was really written by her it is nice to hear confirmation that Garth is as concerned about the writers and their families as he claims.

However, things change and you have to adapt. I would think any songwriter getting into the business would know this by now and be prepared for it. If not, then they haven't done their research as well as us common people do before we go into careers.

Mr_Sevens
11-20-2015, 02:14 PM
As this debate has continued to go on over the years, I've found myself beginning to ask only one question: Why does anyone care anymore?

Lowland_Kid
11-20-2015, 02:37 PM
Hahaha, I'm with you on that one, Sevens!

garthcop
11-20-2015, 05:21 PM
Uhh, cause we are Garth fans

Mr_Sevens
11-20-2015, 05:26 PM
Uhh, cause we are Garth fans

No, I think it's because people just like something to bicker over.

The first few times? Yeah, that's because we are Garth fans. But after literally years of having the same conversation, with the same arguments, the same talking points, tearing apart the same statements from the same people, this "debate" isn't even interesting or fun anymore. It just reading the same things you can find in countless other threads about the same topic.

Garthmedic
11-20-2015, 06:02 PM
No, I think it's because people just like something to bicker over.

The first few times? Yeah, that's because we are Garth fans. But after literally years of having the same conversation, with the same arguments, the same talking points, tearing apart the same statements from the same people, this "debate" isn't even interesting or fun anymore. It just reading the same things you can find in countless other threads about the same topic.


THIS, my friends.... Is dead-on accurate.

garthcop
11-20-2015, 06:08 PM
I disagree. There is truth to it but we are discussing new items on the internet related to this topic. Not the same old articles over and over.

ElectricOutcast
11-20-2015, 09:01 PM
In terms of Itunes having too much control, don't know how relevant it is to the conversation but my experiences with Itunes has been nothing short of horrible. Long story short I was trying to convert an audio book from an Itunes certified format to .MP3 format because it would only play on the Itunes media player and not on my Winamp. And apparently there is some software where I can convert Itunes to MP3 but I have to pay for it.

So in the end, Itunes just flat out sucks and I will take GhostTunes over Apple any day.

BTW Garth Brooks and Nintendo there's a visual right there for you.

Brett Dale
11-23-2015, 03:21 AM
Adele ALBUM first day sales on ITUNES, 900 Thousand.

The machine conquers all.

YouSoundBitter
11-23-2015, 09:13 AM
Not really, she's just more mainstream worldwide and hip with the kids. It's impressive but not Double Live numbers:p

Emerald Isle
11-23-2015, 04:01 PM
Adele ALBUM first day sales on ITUNES, 900 Thousand.

The machine conquers all.

A bit of a dead horse here, but whatever, I'll play. I'm positive that MAM would have done a LOT better if it had been on iTunes. After the GMA performance, "Garth Brooks Mom" was the #2 searched item on iTunes for almost 2 full weeks. That's not insignificant. It means a LOT of people were looking for the song and couldn't find it.

Apple simply has the current corner on the market for music sales in same way Wal-Mart had the corner on the market for CD sales in the 90's. Garth liked the Wal-Mart machine just fine, but doesn't like iTunes. That alone doesn't make Wal-Mart saintly and iTunes evil.

Do you think Garth would've sold nearly as many albums in the 90s if he had only allowed his albums to be sold on cassette, or if he had refused to sell any of his albums at Wal-Marts?

I'm not trying to sound negative or to rip on Garth in any way... he can do what he wants, and whatever that is, I will still gladly seek it out, buy it, and enjoy the heck out of it. I'm a lifer. But I'm not sure his casual fans are as dedicated. But it is what it is. Can't change it. So here's to hoping we get a new single soon, in whatever way Garth wants to give it to us.

garthcop
11-24-2015, 02:59 PM
. So here's to hoping we get a new single soon, in whatever way Garth wants to give it to us.



Amen!!

Mr_Sevens
11-24-2015, 09:49 PM
Adele ALBUM first day sales on ITUNES, 900 Thousand.

The machine conquers all.

While that's true, Adele's album sold even more physical copies. That's an important part of the equation.

And come on, Garth is not even close to being on Adele's level. His commercial peak is LONG passed.

Brett Dale
11-25-2015, 05:41 PM
Adele's album will be the first to sell over three million copies in one week, with the majority of her album sales being from ITUNES!!!

Yes agree Garth commercial peak his long past, I still say he wouldve got close to a million downloads of his album on itunes in the first
week.

Compared that to what ever Ghost tunes numbers were 20 thousand??? tops?

Garthmedic
11-25-2015, 06:55 PM
Yes agree Garth commercial peak his long past, I still say he wouldve got close to a million downloads of his album on itunes in the first
week.

If that was truly important to him, why do you still think he is holding out? So many believe that Garth is trying to top the Beatles or Elvis. I am sure that Garth knows that would only be possible with the use of itunes. Yet he still refuses- so that rules that out.

AHBAMember
11-26-2015, 10:39 PM
There are some songs I haven't downloaded on itunes, because, the album that they are on is available, BUT you can ONLY download the whole album or nothing.

Moreover, there used to be, and maybe still are, tape and CD singles for sale (back when those were the ways music was sold.)

So "refuses to sell singles" and "refuses to go on itunes" are two different things.

As far as songwriter royalties, it is my understanding that songwriters get paid an (admittedly small - it's like $.91) amount by copy of SONG, not copy of album. Whether a listener buys, for example, a copy of the album Trisha Yearwood, or a copy of "She's in Love with the Boy" as a single (it is available as a single) the writer of that song gets paid the same $.91.

That type of royalties are called "mechanical royalties"; the ones from songs being played on the radio are called "performance royalties." It is said that amounts of mechanical royalties ARE in decline, due to the ways music is sold nowadays (and probably, how easy it is to get via Youtube and such.)

But wouldn't you think that those songs available as singles would generate more in sales royalties compared to those not available as singles? That seems to be true with other big artists' songs.

wimpy77
11-27-2015, 12:50 AM
There are some songs I haven't downloaded on itunes, because, the album that they are on is available, BUT you can ONLY download the whole album or nothing.

Moreover, there used to be, and maybe still are, tape and CD singles for sale (back when those were the ways music was sold.)

So "refuses to sell singles" and "refuses to go on itunes" are two different things.

As far as songwriter royalties, it is my understanding that songwriters get paid an (admittedly small - it's like $.91) amount by copy of SONG, not copy of album. Whether a listener buys, for example, a copy of the album Trisha Yearwood, or a copy of "She's in Love with the Boy" as a single (it is available as a single) the writer of that song gets paid the same $.91.

That type of royalties are called "mechanical royalties"; the ones from songs being played on the radio are called "performance royalties." It is said that amounts of mechanical royalties ARE in decline, due to the ways music is sold nowadays (and probably, how easy it is to get via Youtube and such.)

But wouldn't you think that those songs available as singles would generate more in sales royalties compared to those not available as singles? That seems to be true with other big artists' songs.

You're totally wrong about the amount. Songwriters get 10%-12%. That's no where near .91 cents. If songrwriters got that then they would be happy.

AHBAMember
12-06-2015, 08:50 PM
You're totally wrong about the amount. Songwriters get 10%-12%. That's no where near .91 cents. If songrwriters got that then they would be happy.


You are right that I was wrong: it's 9.1 cents per copy (it's often expressed as $91 per thousand copies, which is I guess where my brain got messed up doing the computing.)

Again, this is the "mechanical" (sales) royalties, not on the radio.

BUT, I am still pretty sure that songwriters get paid the amount per song.

MuchTooYoung
12-28-2015, 05:57 PM
When you buy a CD or a digital album, every single songwriter, musician, producer and engineer gets paid. But when you just buy one song, just that one song competes against the rest of the songs on the album. When the songs stick together, everybody on the album team wins.

I understand the situation that Amanda Colleen Williams outlined about how it's basically feast-or-famine for songwriters with the difference being whether a song hits as a single or languishes as an a la carte album cut. I don't understand how Garth's withholding tactic helps anyone. He could very easily designate his albums as album-only on Amazon and iTunes, just like he's done on GhostTunes. If he wants the album team to live and die as a unit, they can do that on Amazon and iTunes. She's entirely right that the present payment scheme is outrageous - as is the fact that only songwriters and not artists have been paid all along for anything played on radio. But 100% of nothing is still nothing, and if I was someone trying to make a living writing songs to be recorded for commercial release, I'd definitely want my work to be sold in as many places as possible.

Or, from another perspective: At what point does someone say, "Garth, I love you, but I need to eat, dude, so good luck with your crusade on my behalf and with writing your new album. I'm pitching my stuff to someone who'll actually put it up for sale"?

Emerald Isle
12-28-2015, 08:07 PM
I understand the situation that Amanda Colleen Williams outlined about how it's basically feast-or-famine for songwriters with the difference being whether a song hits as a single or languishes as an a la carte album cut. I don't understand how Garth's withholding tactic helps anyone. He could very easily designate his albums as album-only on Amazon and iTunes, just like he's done on GhostTunes. If he wants the album team to live and die as a unit, they can do that on Amazon and iTunes. She's entirely right that the present payment scheme is outrageous - as is the fact that only songwriters and not artists have been paid all along for anything played on radio. But 100% of nothing is still nothing, and if I was someone trying to make a living writing songs to be recorded for commercial release, I'd definitely want my work to be sold in as many places as possible.

Or, from another perspective: At what point does someone say, "Garth, I love you, but I need to eat, dude, so good luck with your crusade on my behalf and with writing your new album. I'm pitching my stuff to someone who'll actually put it up for sale"?

Well said!

wimpy77
12-29-2015, 01:00 AM
I understand the situation that Amanda Colleen Williams outlined about how it's basically feast-or-famine for songwriters with the difference being whether a song hits as a single or languishes as an a la carte album cut. I don't understand how Garth's withholding tactic helps anyone. He could very easily designate his albums as album-only on Amazon and iTunes, just like he's done on GhostTunes. If he wants the album team to live and die as a unit, they can do that on Amazon and iTunes. She's entirely right that the present payment scheme is outrageous - as is the fact that only songwriters and not artists have been paid all along for anything played on radio. But 100% of nothing is still nothing, and if I was someone trying to make a living writing songs to be recorded for commercial release, I'd definitely want my work to be sold in as many places as possible.

Or, from another perspective: At what point does someone say, "Garth, I love you, but I need to eat, dude, so good luck with your crusade on my behalf and with writing your new album. I'm pitching my stuff to someone who'll actually put it up for sale"?

You forgot one thing. Garth actually has a financial stake in Ghostunes.

AHBAMember
01-09-2016, 09:55 PM
A thought comes to my mind: what was the deal with "The Call"? Wasn't that kind of an independently-released single...it wasn't on Man Against Machine, and I don't think it was in the 2009 boxed set (that had "More Than a Memory") either.

Skywise
01-09-2016, 09:56 PM
wasn't that going to be a 'maybe' single from the CBS special in Vegas, to somewhat coincide with the blame it all on my roots release?