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View Full Version : Has Garth got the credit he deserves



Brian Mcgee
05-26-2004, 07:11 AM
I have found a disturbing trend over the past six to seven years coming out of
music city and mainstream America. Artists, producers and media, all seem to be part of this.

The trend is about one man, Garth Brooks and how he will be remebered.

It seems those responsible for writing music history, have already came up with the story of Garth, " A crossover artist who marketed himself well enough to sell 100 million albums, but not a true singer/songwriter, not a legend, someone whos music was basically earcandy.

He will be known for his publicity stunts, and stage show, but his music has no nurtrition value whatso ever.

Whenever there is a review of a George Strait or Alan Jackson concert, the writer brings up the fact that "they are legends and not a slick marketing product as Garth Brooks"


Other artists have also put thier two cents in, these are artists who are known as the new breed of legends, when receiving an award for selling 25 million albums, one artist said and I quote "I could of sold 100 million albums if I had of been a flashy showoff type person"

Another quote from a legend, "Country music is about steel guitars and fiddles not swinging on ropes and smashing guitars from Newyork city" or probably one of the worst comments, coming from a respected artist,
"The problem with Grand ole Orpy is, that the so called big stars like Garth Brooks, say they care about the Orpy, but they never play here"


I for one find some of their comments to be degarding and sometimes factually inaccurate.

What should Garth be rembered for?

There are several things,

Most importantly of all is the music, I think music is more than just walking into a studio getting handed some songs by a producer singing them, and churning out an album once a year.

I also think, how far does an artist take his music genre? Does he move it forward? Does he bring a whole new audience to it. Does he take chances? Does he tackle subject matter that other artists in his genre wouldnt dare to touch.

I personally think the music side of Garth Brooks, has never been fully appericated, not only has he given songs such as "The Dance" and "Friends in Low Places", he given us songs that deal with such issues as Date Rape in "Face to Face", Suicide in "I dont have to Wonder" gay rights in "We Shall be Free", Spousal Abuse in "The Thunder Rolls" and his father's mental
illness in "Pushing up Daisies"

For me, I found it disgusting how Garth's last album and IMHO his best work, "Scarecrow" got totally igorned by radio, Industry insiders, the two main country award shows, "ACM's and "CMA's"

This album was such a deep and personal album, with the lyrics relating to the people closest to Garth in life. If this album had of been released by another other artist, it would of been applaued as a masterpiece and gone down in country history, because the lyrics were so beautiful and the music written to fit those lyrics, were perfect. It was Garth that released this album though, and a lot of people brushed off this album because of it.


As I said at the start of this post, I dont think Garth will ever get the credit he is due as an artist, and to the singer that said "I could of sold 100 million albums if I had of been a flashy, showoff type person, I would say "if you came up with the songs that Garth gave us over 10 years, you too would of probably sold 100 million album"

The sadpart of Garth Brook's career is that history will never recognize him as the brillant singer/songwriter that he is, he will just be recognize as "that artist who sold a lot of albums in the 90s"

ProducerJ
05-26-2004, 04:47 PM
Welcome to the Planet Brian! From my perspective, I think history is going to be very good to Garth. I see it all the time, the way his name comes up in articles about everyone else in the music business, and how he seems to have set the bar that everyone else in the business aspires to.


Other artists have also put thier two cents in, these are artists who are known as the new breed of legends, when receiving an award for selling 25 million albums, one artist said and I quote "I could of sold 100 million albums if I had of been a flashy showoff type person"

Another quote from a legend, "Country music is about steel guitars and fiddles not swinging on ropes and smashing guitars from Newyork city" or probably one of the worst comments, coming from a respected artist,
"The problem with Grand ole Orpy is, that the so called big stars like Garth Brooks, say they care about the Orpy, but they never play here"
I would be very interested to hear who all three of those quotes came from. I think they all come from a certain perspective, and have a lot of truth in them. The first one certainly sounds like it came from someone who was jealous, the second from a hardcore country traditionalist, and quite honestly, the quote about the Opry is dead on truth.


For me, I found it disgusting how Garth's last album and IMHO his best work, "Scarecrow" got totally igorned by radio, Industry insiders, the two main country award shows, "ACM's and "CMA's"

You left out his record label. Music gets on the radio and in the awards shows because a record label puts their muscle behind it, and an artist is out pounding the pavement, playing shows, doing radio station visits and doing the talk shows to support it. As a voting member of the CMA, I can tell you, and did tell everyone at the time, I got promotional consideration pieces on Keith Urban and Trace Adkins, but nothing on Garth - not even in the final voting round when his Vocal Collaboration nomination was the ONLY nomination the label had.


The sadpart of Garth Brook's career is that history will never recognize him as the brillant singer/songwriter that he is, he will just be recognize as "that artist who sold a lot of albums in the 90s"
I think history is going to be better to him than that, but only time will tell. :) Thanks for your insighful post, hope to see you around the Planet lots!
J.

Rooster
05-26-2004, 05:06 PM
Does anyone know why Garth doesn't play the Opry? I've often wondered why. :(

BTW... Welcome to the Planet, Brian! :)

TrishaNGarthFan
05-27-2004, 12:25 AM
I agree with a lot of what you have said. I've noticed the trend too, and Joyce, since you live in Nashville, maybe you get a different look at things than we do. But out here, I don't see Garth getting the credit he deserves. When people talk about legends in country music I usually hear "George Strait" come up most of the time, and I very rarely hear Garth's name come up. I don't get it? All of George Strait's songs sound the same to me (for the past 10 years or so), and he's had a lot of #1 singles, but what of it? It proves his record company is doing what its supposed to do in promoting him. When he came here to play in Buffalo, he didn't even sell out! Last night on the ACM's his voice sounded terrible.

Then there's Garth. He changed the face of country music forever. As far as I'm concerned, there's nobody better than Garth ever, in country music. I may be too young to remember what Johnny Cash did for country music, but look what Garth has done. Does that not count? For a man as talented as Garth, with such a beautiful, versatile, voice, not to mention the beautiful love songs he's written (amongst other songs), I have to wonder where he fits? Its as if he's their "goat," their whipping boy. Yeah, some people do give him his due, but not a lot. When legends of country music are mentioned, Garth should be right up there. And I never understood why he wasn't #1 or #2 in the CMT 100 greatest men of country music.

Carol-you are right on about Garth praising Trisha. I've also heard him praise Martina, Steve Wariner, Leann Rimes, Keith Urban, and others.

From where I sit, Garth doesn't get near the credit he deserves.

Sue

Carol Ann
05-27-2004, 02:49 PM
I've always thought that the negative comments that other artists made about Garth were because they were jealous of his success. I also have always thought that Garth is one of the few artists who is always saying complimentary things about other artists. You don't see that too often because a lot of these people are insecure and don't want the attention on anyone but themselves. Garth, on the other hand, was always shining the spotlight on everyone but himself. The way he has always praised Trisha, just to mention one, is a perfect example of that.

Carol

Brian Mcgee
05-27-2004, 08:04 PM
[QUOTE=ProducerJ
I would be very interested to hear who all three of those quotes came from. I think they all come from a certain perspective, and have a lot of truth in them. The first one certainly sounds like it came from someone who was jealous, the second from a hardcore country traditionalist, and quite honestly, the quote about the Opry is dead on truth.

The quotes came from George Jones, Alan Jackson and Vince Gill, George
Jones said the Swinging on ropes" quote, Alan Jackson said the "Flashy
showoff type person" quote and Vince Gill said the quote about the Opry.



You left out his record label. Music gets on the radio and in the awards shows because a record label puts their muscle behind it, and an artist is out pounding the pavement, playing shows, doing radio station visits and doing the talk shows to support it. As a voting member of the CMA, I can tell you, and did tell everyone at the time, I got promotional consideration pieces on Keith Urban and Trace Adkins, but nothing on Garth - not even in the final voting round when his Vocal Collaboration nomination was the ONLY nomination the label had.


That amazes me about this record label, you think when the artist that
kept your label going for 10 years is to retire you would pull out all stops.
I understand that Garth is a catelog artist now, what does that mean?

Lowell Miller
05-27-2004, 10:29 PM
"The quotes came from George Jones, Alan Jackson and Vince Gill, George
Jones said the Swinging on ropes" quote, Alan Jackson said the "Flashy
showoff type person" quote and Vince Gill said the quote about the Opry."

I knew there was a reason "Beer Run" was my least favorite GB song..

TrishaNGarthFan
05-27-2004, 10:47 PM
I'm kind of shocked those quotes came from Alan Jackson and Vince, who I thought was a personal friend of Garths. I never did care for George Jones anyhow, and now even moreso. I would think if Vince were friends with Garth, he would've mentioned this to him in person and not via the media. He does have a point though. I don't understand why Garth can't do a show or two at the Opry every year. If all the people who made their mark so to speak, stopped playing at the Opry, where would the Opry be? Surely it doesn't take that much time out of his schedule to play the Opry for one night, does it? (Especially if he's in Nashville with Trisha over a weekend). He wouldn't even have to call his band back, he could use Trisha's band like he's done in the past. I do have sympathy for those who love the Opry and try to preserve it in this present day, when they wonder why Garth doesn't bother to come.

The only logical reason I can figure that Garth doesn't play the Opry, is that he's hurting over not performing anymore. If he were to perform, it may be too much of a draw for him and he'd wind up touring again, when he said he wouldn't.

Sue

ProducerJ
05-28-2004, 12:10 AM
I don't think Vince and Garth are very good friends. . .

The Opry thing he said he couldn't just go out and be a weekend warrior, music was all or nothing for him. He also said they'd have to pry his cold dead fingers off his Opry membership.

He's certainly not the only one. Reba never plays, because she won't use the house band and doesn't want to have to pay her band. Barbara Mandrell of course retired from the industry. IMHO if you aren't going to live up to your obligations, you should graciously step aside and give up your place on the roster.

There are lots of performers like Eddy Raven who play there regularly and would LOVE to be made Opry members. But management doesn't see them as a draw that can sell tickets, and would rather offer a roster spot to people like Terri Clark and Trace Adkins, who have young fans with money to spend that will travel to Nashville and buy tickets to the Opry.

I wish they'd make the Oak Ridge Boys members. They play there all the time, and Duane's wife is one of the Carol Lee singers (the group that backs up everyone). But what do I know.
J.

fuzzwuzz
05-28-2004, 12:26 AM
Brian, I think Joyce is right in what she says about Garth setting the bar at a height for others to try an emulate or top. However, there is one thing Garth should get recognition for that none of the others could touch until he came along, and that is in how much closer I am to God because of Garth pulling me into the fire with him. I had no appreciation for any of those others until that happened. I hope they all realize we all have to give an account of all our words someday and our true motives laid bare before our Maker. Then, Garth will be recognized.

Joyce, with Garth being retired does that mean from the Opry too like Barbara?
My friend Jonathan Cummings, from CummingWest, first band was with the bass player of the Oak Ridge Boys. Don or Dan Carr maybe? They hooked up again when ORB played the S FL Fair.

Skydancer
05-28-2004, 04:15 AM
I do think it is silly to say that Garth Brooks isn't "country" after hearing music like that of Shania Twain, and some country music's newer stars. However, had Garth not broken the ground like that, many of them probably wouldn't have stood as much of a chance as they did. Garth was all of the wrong things at the right time. In other words, he didn't exactly have something listeners of country were ready for in many ways but I think it was more *the way he did it* that forced people to listen and grabbed their attention. It served in his favor giving him a wider audience-- since many of his fans have admitted they don't like country music, but love Garth.

I too, was surprised that one of those quotes came from Alan Jackson. That just didn't strike me as something he would say... however, besides Trisha, Ty England, Steve Wariner, Chris LeDoux and George Jones, I am not familiar exactly with the fellow big names in music that Garth is friends with.

PJ
05-28-2004, 09:44 AM
I remember the quote from George Jones and think it's quite an old quote. That doesn't mean George's opinion has changed, but then again maybe it has.

Rooster
05-28-2004, 10:25 AM
The Opry thing he said he couldn't just go out and be a weekend warrior, music was all or nothing for him. He also said they'd have to pry his cold dead fingers off his Opry membership.I guess that's why I've wondered about it. Garth has said that the Opry is the pinnacle of what he does.
There are lots of performers like Eddy Raven who play there regularly and would LOVE to be made Opry members. But management doesn't see them as a draw that can sell tickets, and would rather offer a roster spot to people like Terri Clark and Trace Adkins, who have young fans with money to spend that will travel to Nashville and buy tickets to the Opry.That makes it sound like being a member of the Opry is a popularity contest.

Question... how many roster spots are there? What number is Garth? 77? I know it's 70 something.

PJ
05-28-2004, 03:18 PM
Garth is the 65th member.

Rooster
05-28-2004, 03:24 PM
Well.... I wasn't even close. :O

Thanks! :)

ProducerJ
05-28-2004, 07:12 PM
I don't think there's a set number, but they don't offer it to everyone, they do make it an 'honor'. I hadn't thought of it as a popularity contest, but in a way I guess it is, because it's all about who can sell tickets.

And their numbers change.... for instance if member #22 dies, #23 on up slide up.

J.

Garthmedic
05-29-2004, 03:15 AM
This is a fascinating thread.

--spud--:)

rob6852
05-29-2004, 02:57 PM
I guess I can understand that comment comming from Alan Jackson. After
all his duet with George Strait ,"Murder on Music Row", seemed to be targeted
at artists such as Garth and the type of music that was comming out at the
time. Both are hardcore country traditionalists so I can see Alan saying
something like that.
Anyways, with all the music comming out these days, Garth's music still
stands heads and shoulders above the rest simply because of the hart and
soul that he put into his music.
Take care yall.

Garthfan92
05-30-2004, 10:53 PM
Very interesting topic. The quotes, especially from Alan and Vince, don't surprise me. I've never felt Vince was exactly his biggest fan, and don't get the impression Alan likes him at all. As far as George, maybe his feelings changed after getting to know Garth a little, considering they worked together. I would hope so, seeing as George is someone Garth idolizes so much.

Do I think Garth gets the respect/credit he deserves? NO!!! I think it will be years before he truly does, as it seems to be for a lot of legends. Only time seems to prove their lasting impact.

Lisa

CountryBee
05-31-2004, 03:28 PM
I don't believe that Vince was speaking only about Garth when he made his comment. As someone mentioned before, there is Reba. Then there is Dolly Parton, who went 8 years without an Opry performance. The Opry was becoming an "old-timers" performance venue, where artists, who have been forgotten by today's country radio, could come to perform their biggest hits and their loyal fans could see them. Over the past 3 or 4 years (as someone already said) the Opry has tried to bring in new, younger, more popular artists in order to sell more tickets. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, they haven't offered a lot of the new artists membership in the Opry. Some new artist's "careers" don't last long enough and others don't want to take the time out from their concert tours (where they make more money) to perform regularly, as requirered in their Opry membership contracts. Of course, there are a few members who are not held to that reqirement, Garth is the best known one. There are several artists who have said they don't want to become a member, and one of those reasons why is, because they don't live in Nashville. That is why George Strait has never become a member.

fuzzwuzz
05-31-2004, 05:34 PM
I always thought the Opry was about God, the people, and the music. The place where popularity is put aside in favor of those things.